Author Topic: Airport Lounge Malfunctioning across the globe  (Read 317 times)

DaProf

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Re: Airport Lounge Malfunctioning across the globe
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 06:47:26 pm »

Quick reply...still at work :D


Heheheh and I'm currently giving an engineering test on approximate methods for linear algebra  ;D
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alex

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Re: Airport Lounge Malfunctioning across the globe
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 06:48:34 pm »
OK, based on my own read of the code: a general collapse in first-class and business-class passengers should not have occurred as a result of this update. So the possibilities are:

  • I have misread the code.
  • Such a drop in fact didn't happen, and some airlines that have not yet posted have seen gains in ridership - gains which possibly haven't shown a profit for them yet, because they haven't adjusted prices upwards to capture the new demand.
  • (2), except also this is happening within-airlines, and after a drawn-out rebalance of prices and quantities airlines will realize larger profits than before.
  • Something I haven't thought of.

Sample Case: You and a competitor both run a route with the B/F prices at 1000/4000

Well lets just say a competitor opens up a class 1 lounge at one end of a route you both run. Here is what normal B/F passengers see.
Your prices stay at 1000/4000 .. your competitors prices are seen as 875/3600

If it was a class 3 lounge, now your competitors prices are seen as 625/2800

.. the effect is they've priced you out of the market .. passengers now see your prices as above the threshold to actually pick your route. (Or atleast my tests are showing that).

The effect of the lounge is too great.. I can it having a small "appeal" effect of maybe 5% ticket price .. but a class 3 lounge is approaching a 33% reduction in perceived prices. The competitors without lounges will have to lower their prices down near that perceived price and that makes it almost guaranteed that the big airlines will be the only ones that survive.

Yes, this does not produce a general collapse in demand - in fact it produces an enormous increase in total demand. But in order to be realized people need to actually expand biz/FC capacity or raise prices.

If some airlines saw a sudden collapse of their biz/FC ridership, that tells us that one of the following happened:

  • Competition that opened a lounge had previously been running routes with lots of unused biz/FC capacity and hadn't noticed.
  • Competition that opened a lounge also expanded their biz/FC capacity at the same time (probably at the cost of econ seats) and is enjoying the extra profits.
  • There is a bug in the code somewhere.

I don't think (1) is a problem, frankly, and I don't think (2) is a problem either - it means that if you don't have a lounge, you need to focus on competing for economy class passengers.

There is another possible outcome, where your ridership doesn't collapse, but instead the competitor is now earning much larger profit margins on his biz/FC tickets because he raised prices.

I am still worried that (3) is the answer, though.

DaProf

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Re: Airport Lounge Malfunctioning across the globe
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 06:58:43 pm »
Yes, this does not produce a general collapse in demand - in fact it produces an enormous increase in total demand. But in order to be realized people need to actually expand biz/FC capacity or raise prices.

If some airlines saw a sudden collapse of their biz/FC ridership, that tells us that one of the following happened:

  • Competition that opened a lounge had previously been running routes with lots of unused biz/FC capacity and hadn't noticed.
  • Competition that opened a lounge also expanded their biz/FC capacity at the same time (probably at the cost of econ seats) and is enjoying the extra profits.
  • There is a bug in the code somewhere.

I don't think (1) is a problem, frankly, and I don't think (2) is a problem either - it means that if you don't have a lounge, you need to focus on competing for economy class passengers.

There is another possible outcome, where your ridership doesn't collapse, but instead the competitor is now earning much larger profit margins on his biz/FC tickets because he raised prices.

I am still worried that (3) is the answer, though.

Well I don't see it as a collapse in demand .. but the demand is now at a much lower price point now that a competitor opened a lounge. It sees your prices and chooses not to use you. The demand is still there .. but it's demanding lower prices. Edit: Or as patson pointed out .. now those B/F travelers are using completely different routes because overall they seem "cheaper" than your loungeless route
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:28:29 pm by DaProf »
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DaProf

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Re: Airport Lounge Malfunctioning across the globe
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2018, 07:37:52 pm »
Also if anyone feels like chatting about this or anything else ..

#airline-club on irc.geeksheed.net

https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.geekshed.net/#airline-club

Figured why not, I'm always there anyways ..  :D
You're not flying by the seat of your pants .. You're flying Dairy Air!

alex

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Re: Airport Lounge Malfunctioning across the globe
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2018, 07:53:34 pm »
Well I don't see it as a collapse in demand .. but the demand is now at a much lower price point now that a competitor opened a lounge. It sees your prices and chooses not to use you. The demand is still there .. but it's demanding lower prices. Edit: Or as patson pointed out .. now those B/F travelers are using completely different routes because overall they seem "cheaper" than your loungeless route

Seeing it as demand at a lower price point isn't quite right. Your competitor has been given room to massively raise prices while leaving the actual balance of passengers unchanged. There is more potential money flowing into the system. But if your competitor hasn't yet raised prices to match his enhanced pricing power, it's like if he started a predatory price war against you - you are going to suddenly need to drop prices sharply to compete.

However, all of that only even holds if your competitor had a lot of unused biz / FC capacity. If he did not, his flights will fill up quickly and the remaining passengers will still pick you.

It is possible that the system had a lot of unused biz / FC capacity that got shifted to. I know it's been ages since I seriously looked at or rebalanced my routes; yesterday I found some where my biz / FC passenger slots had been empty for ages and I'd been losing a lot of potential profit.

I didn't have enough time between creating my lounges, adjusting my routes (to increase biz/FC capacity), and the change being rolled back, to observe whether I was seeing a big new influx of passengers on at least some routes. It's possible that I actually was sucking up a lot of passengers.