Author Topic: Incoming changes: AI airlines will lose capacity eventually if it's in red  (Read 174 times)

patson

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Changes to AI airlines are being tested right now and will be deployed later tonight!

AI airlines will not longer enjoy the 100% condition airplanes w/o any condition decay. Instead, airplanes will decay just like any airlines and AI airlines will have auto-renewal set at 40%

This means if an AI airlines is in debt, then it will not be able to replace the aging fleet, and eventually it might lose all its capacity (you can finally drive them out!)


Another small UI also adds a robot icon next to the airline in rivals screen to indicate whether it's an AI.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 07:49:45 pm by patson »

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patson

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Current status of AI airlines :)

+----------------------------------+--------------+
| name                             | balance      |
+----------------------------------+--------------+
| Air Los Angeles - LAX            | -11449838753 |
| Air Dallas-Fort Worth - DFW      | -10747095877 |
| Air Atlanta - ATL                | -9567472087  |
| Air Chicago - ORD                | -1397066634  |
| Air Singapore - SIN              | -1339542226  |
| Air Melbourne - MEL              | 1035315586   |
| Air Las Vegas - LAS              | 1746108836   |
| Air Newark - EWR                 | 2336335261   |
| Air Phoenix - PHX                | 2827755201   |
| Air Canberra - CBR               | 2891756071   |
| Air Minsk - MSQ                  | 4054590242   |
| Air San Francisco - SFO          | 4415462747   |
| Air Fukuoka - FUK                | 4647686393   |
| Air Lisbon - LIS                 | 4897166150   |
| Air Pittsburgh - PIT             | 4913245860   |
| Air Sydney - SYD                 | 4984722460   |
| Air Salt Lake City - SLC         | 5271074606   |
| Air Adelaide - ADL               | 5400047203   |
| Air Boston - BOS                 | 5683600015   |
| Air Dayton - DAY                 | 5832900421   |
| Air Santiago - SCL               | 5983147147   |
| Air Limerick - SNN               | 6261598618   |
| Air Brisbane - BNE               | 6504295302   |
| Air Geneva - GVA                 | 6584505759   |
| Air Tampa - TPA                  | 6852547332   |
| Air Toledo - TOL                 | 6899925148   |
| Air Moscow - VKO                 | 7030319541   |
| Air Cleveland - CLE              | 7233505564   |
| Air New York - LGA               | 7315060434   |
| Air Brussels - BRU               | 7376956504   |
| Air London - LHR                 | 7483441836   |
| Air Birmingham - BHM             | 7516523738   |
| Air Lima - LIM                   | 7816268279   |
| Air Washington - IAD             | 7884065699   |
| Air Nice - NCE                   | 8064386941   |
| Air Prague - PRG                 | 8359841075   |
| Air Columbus - LCK               | 8533299259   |
| Air Tucson - TUS                 | 8545234970   |
| Air Cagliari - CAG               | 8595307250   |
| Air Denver - DEN                 | 8649481724   |
| Air Malmö - MMX                  | 8654897932   |
| Air Moscow - DME                 | 8713440709   |
| Air Kraków - KRK                 | 8996264354   |
| Air Albuquerque - ABQ            | 9047958891   |
| Air Oakland - OAK                | 9158401426   |
| Air Ottawa - YOW                 | 9169529637   |
| Air Pozna? - POZ                 | 9310930768   |
| Air Moscow - SVO                 | 9329415817   |
| Air Wroc?aw - WRO                | 9356069658   |
| Air Billund - BLL                | 9437804977   |
| Air Edmonton - YEG               | 9492848663   |
| Air Colorado Springs - COS       | 9595109943   |
| Air Oslo - OSL                   | 9630043456   |
| Air Zurich - ZRH                 | 9642799771   |
| Air Newcastle - NCL              | 9679373088   |
| Air Chicago/Rockford - RFD       | 9723397311   |
| Air Columbus - CMH               | 9769154345   |
| Air Little Rock - LIT            | 9823390855   |
| Air Fort Worth - AFW             | 9858420862   |
| Air El Paso - ELP                | 9902366511   |
| Air Valencia - VLC               | 9925101319   |
| Air Washington - DCA             | 10135814799  |
| Air Houston - HOU                | 10163359865  |
| Air New Orleans - MSY            | 10317442265  |
| Air Oklahoma City - OKC          | 10330145401  |
| Air Guadalajara - GDL            | 10349515072  |
| Air Charlotte - CLT              | 10362575036  |
| Air Palma De Mallorca - PMI      | 10370774597  |
| Air Milwaukee - MKE              | 10374206030  |
| Air Fort Wayne - FWA             | 10435064147  |
| Air Gothenburg - GOT             | 10524518833  |
| Air Raleigh/Durham - RDU         | 10532012659  |
| Air Glasgow - GLA                | 10638945153  |
| Air Portland - PDX               | 10717648793  |
| Air Ontario - ONT                | 10755232865  |
| Air Indianapolis - IND           | 10835678473  |
| Air Mexico City - MEX            | 10853131434  |
| Air Kansas City - MCI            | 10883613306  |
| Air Foggia - FOG                 | 11110520974  |
| Air Katowice - KTW               | 11127518481  |
| Air Toulouse/Blagnac - TLS       | 11146464333  |
| Air Baltimore - BWI              | 11247311559  |
| Air Cincinnati - CVG             | 11254996012  |
| Air Bucharest - OTP              | 11481579792  |
| Air Santiago de Compostela - SCQ | 11511536314  |
| Air Cologne - CGN                | 11580768965  |
| Air Des Moines - DSM             | 11680980904  |
| Air Grottaglie - TAR             | 11783336823  |
| Air Philadelphia - PHL           | 11836554658  |
| Air Wichita - ICT                | 11895666343  |
| Air Nashville - BNA              | 11918116955  |
| Air Detroit - DTW                | 11926334777  |
| Air Belfast - BFS                | 11941177491  |
| Air Rome - FCO                   | 11942971664  |
| Air San Diego - SAN              | 11983688468  |
| Air Liverpool - LPL              | 12014611545  |
| Air Stockholm - ARN              | 12024604998  |
| Air Istanbul - IST               | 12583305381  |
| Air Dortmund - DTM               | 12658496330  |
| Air Genova - GOA                 | 12661881390  |
| Air Winnipeg - YWG               | 12875792653  |
| Air Edinburgh - EDI              | 12982171637  |
| Air Norfolk - ORF                | 13084823242  |
| Air London - LTN                 | 13390095472  |
| Air Buenos Aires - EZE           | 13568050788  |
| Air Kaohsiung City - KHH         | 13703438633  |
| Air Montréal - YUL               | 13780416890  |
| Air Cheongju - CJJ               | 13838855956  |
| Air Warsaw - WAW                 | 14021015282  |
| Air Leeds - LBA                  | 14260559957  |
| Air Roma - CIA                   | 14374700196  |
| Air Salerno - QSR                | 14430847726  |
| Air Milan - LIN                  | 14579781902  |
| Air Dublin - DUB                 | 14602737355  |
| Air Madrid - MAD                 | 14959829209  |
| Air Vancouver - YVR              | 14991298400  |
| Air Budapest - BUD               | 15142655394  |
| Air Berlin - SXF                 | 15202569720  |
| Air Jacksonville - JAX           | 15285915464  |
| Air Baden-Baden - FKB            | 15303876669  |
| Air São Paulo - GRU              | 15316971974  |
| Air Tulsa - TUL                  | 15662658029  |
| Air Torino - TRN                 | 15913038527  |
| Air Memphis - MEM                | 15915154598  |
| Air Barcelona - BCN              | 15919611965  |
| Air Austin - AUS                 | 16406675835  |
| Air Marseille - MRS              | 16470058082  |
| Air Paris - CDG                  | 16859973838  |
| Air St. Petersburg - LED         | 16871522725  |
| Air Amsterdam - AMS              | 16890154180  |
| Air Bologna - BLQ                | 17038294930  |
| Air Munich - MUC                 | 17112910444  |
| Air Calgary - YYC                | 17184627696  |
| Air Birmingham - BHX             | 17273984763  |
| Air Chicago - MDW                | 17299852561  |
| Air Minneapolis - MSP            | 17561310362  |
| Air Paris - ORY                  | 17653145675  |
| Air Nottingham - EMA             | 17722428095  |
| Air Houston - IAH                | 17764935961  |
| Air Athens - ATH                 | 17836882351  |
| Air Copenhagen - CPH             | 17993300307  |
| Air London - LCY                 | 18105079485  |
| Air Taipei - TPE                 | 18852676973  |
| Air Catania - CTA                | 18951845226  |
| Air Doncaster - DSA              | 19675418774  |
| Air Venice - VCE                 | 19901567043  |
| Air Toronto - YYZ                | 19912605975  |
| Air Málaga - AGP                 | 19989702246  |
| Air Leipzig - LEJ                | 20019734608  |
| Air Vienna - VIE                 | 20222887321  |
| Air Alicante - ALC               | 20236404718  |
| Air Helsinki - HEL               | 20523062593  |
| Air San Jose - SJC               | 20684719161  |
| Air Stuttgart - STR              | 20850893791  |
| Air Berlin - TXL                 | 20986990610  |
| Air Pisa - PSA                   | 21148437871  |
| Air Bari - BRI                   | 21246087142  |
| Air Guangzhou - CAN              | 21286882533  |
| Air Bergamo - BGY                | 21943441563  |
| Air Tokyo - NRT                  | 22185813876  |
| Air Milan - MXP                  | 22190170535  |
| Air San Antonio - SAT            | 22665446081  |
| Air Seoul - ICN                  | 22694367636  |
| Air Palermo - PMO                | 23465329685  |
| Air Osaka - KIX                  | 23899387053  |
| Air Tianjin - TSN                | 24129538629  |
| Air Verona - VRN                 | 24202396742  |
| Air Düsseldorf - DUS             | 25121927694  |
| Air Hannover - HAJ               | 25177029797  |
| Air Hamburg - HAM                | 26608938055  |
| Air Busan - PUS                  | 29185121991  |
| Air Nápoli - NAP                 | 29782465915  |
| Air London - LGW                 | 31674612168  |
| Air Tokoname - NGO               | 31727062181  |
| Air Osaka - ITM                  | 35559508480  |
| Air Frankfurt-am-Main - FRA      | 38086095178  |
| Air London - STN                 | 42137483246  |
| Air Manchester - MAN             | 43235144585  |
| Air Seoul - GMP                  | 44188094490  |
| Air Shenzhen - SZX               | 56744233092  |
| Air Hong Kong - HKG              | 60246767339  |
| Air Tokyo - HND                  | 152432057746 |
+----------------------------------+--------------+

bluesky

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wouldn't it be easier to just remove them?

this still won't change the fact that it's kinda pointless to fight an AI airline.

Air Tokyo - HND for example, has $152bi and some 50 routes
AI prices are too low to undercut without a loss and afaik AI don't pay base maintenance or service investment, so even IF you somehow manage to undercut a good portion of those routes and make the AI have negative income, you'll have to wait ages for it to have negative balance and stop renewing stuff.
It's simply impossible to do it alone, and even if players get together, it'll take ages to bring an AI airline to bankruptcy.

Even if Air Tokyo suddenly gets $100mi negative income, it'll still take over 1500 weeks for it to have negative balance (a little less due to renewals, but you get the idea).
It'll still take like 1 month IRL, even with $100mi in the red.

Granted, most airlines have only $10bi in the bank, it'll still take a long time for them to go bankrupt tho.

Could you also give us the current income of the AI airlines?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 12:01:41 am by bluesky »

patson

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+----------------------------------+----------+
| name                             | profit   |
+----------------------------------+----------+
| Air Singapore - SIN              | -3355768 |
| Air Melbourne - MEL              | -1795952 |
| Air Taipei - TPE                 | -1613553 |
| Air Buenos Aires - EZE           | -1341361 |
| Air Seoul - ICN                  | -906440  |
| Air Santiago - SCL               | -807187  |
| Air Mexico City - MEX            | -650957  |
| Air Atlanta - ATL                | -625362  |
| Air Lima - LIM                   | -522847  |
| Air Edmonton - YEG               | -499403  |
| Air Brisbane - BNE               | -430190  |
| Air Vancouver - YVR              | -397498  |
| Air Chicago - ORD                | -232598  |
| Air Phoenix - PHX                | -214551  |
| Air Boston - BOS                 | -214177  |
| Air Salt Lake City - SLC         | -198403  |
| Air São Paulo - GRU              | -196893  |
| Air Calgary - YYC                | -184337  |
| Air Canberra - CBR               | -170567  |
| Air San Francisco - SFO          | -165213  |
| Air Ontario - ONT                | -147753  |
| Air Minsk - MSQ                  | -142777  |
| Air Limerick - SNN               | -123033  |
| Air Guadalajara - GDL            | -107335  |
| Air Adelaide - ADL               | -39280   |
| Air Moscow - VKO                 | -20932   |
| Air Moscow - DME                 | -13143   |
| Air Oakland - OAK                | -7508    |
| Air Moscow - SVO                 | 11843    |
| Air Lisbon - LIS                 | 15480    |
| Air Denver - DEN                 | 22793    |
| Air Portland - PDX               | 36802    |
| Air Ottawa - YOW                 | 40849    |
| Air Geneva - GVA                 | 42256    |
| Air Toledo - TOL                 | 45799    |
| Air Kaohsiung City - KHH         | 65297    |
| Air Wichita - ICT                | 69581    |
| Air Pittsburgh - PIT             | 73151    |
| Air Las Vegas - LAS              | 75488    |
| Air Wroc?aw - WRO                | 84370    |
| Air Oslo - OSL                   | 107011   |
| Air Malmö - MMX                  | 108336   |
| Air Tampa - TPA                  | 113450   |
| Air Cleveland - CLE              | 115948   |
| Air Winnipeg - YWG               | 132532   |
| Air Dallas-Fort Worth - DFW      | 143927   |
| Air Brussels - BRU               | 144077   |
| Air Prague - PRG                 | 148590   |
| Air Dayton - DAY                 | 151888   |
| Air Pozna? - POZ                 | 169750   |
| Air San Jose - SJC               | 170756   |
| Air Gothenburg - GOT             | 186478   |
| Air Washington - DCA             | 208801   |
| Air Chicago/Rockford - RFD       | 208981   |
| Air Fort Worth - AFW             | 212063   |
| Air Santiago de Compostela - SCQ | 227834   |
| Air Columbus - LCK               | 230565   |
| Air Billund - BLL                | 246823   |
| Air Birmingham - BHM             | 250329   |
| Air Glasgow - GLA                | 252424   |
| Air Zurich - ZRH                 | 263151   |
| Air Sydney - SYD                 | 274216   |
| Air Norfolk - ORF                | 274699   |
| Air Washington - IAD             | 291007   |
| Air Valencia - VLC               | 299309   |
| Air Newcastle - NCL              | 304514   |
| Air Fort Wayne - FWA             | 306621   |
| Air Dublin - DUB                 | 311229   |
| Air New Orleans - MSY            | 312235   |
| Air Tucson - TUS                 | 313741   |
| Air Palma De Mallorca - PMI      | 322529   |
| Air Nice - NCE                   | 323424   |
| Air El Paso - ELP                | 326163   |
| Air Edinburgh - EDI              | 335685   |
| Air Baltimore - BWI              | 340653   |
| Air Kraków - KRK                 | 341901   |
| Air New York - LGA               | 347829   |
| Air Cincinnati - CVG             | 354713   |
| Air Des Moines - DSM             | 375288   |
| Air Columbus - CMH               | 379329   |
| Air Houston - HOU                | 383683   |
| Air Cagliari - CAG               | 397116   |
| Air Leeds - LBA                  | 402745   |
| Air Belfast - BFS                | 403083   |
| Air Montréal - YUL               | 408511   |
| Air San Diego - SAN              | 416507   |
| Air Colorado Springs - COS       | 418262   |
| Air Foggia - FOG                 | 424387   |
| Air Budapest - BUD               | 435510   |
| Air St. Petersburg - LED         | 451036   |
| Air Liverpool - LPL              | 459722   |
| Air Málaga - AGP                 | 461182   |
| Air Milwaukee - MKE              | 464132   |
| Air Istanbul - IST               | 465412   |
| Air Warsaw - WAW                 | 480872   |
| Air Dortmund - DTM               | 482527   |
| Air Katowice - KTW               | 485468   |
| Air Stockholm - ARN              | 497898   |
| Air Toulouse/Blagnac - TLS       | 499990   |
| Air Charlotte - CLT              | 506580   |
| Air Bucharest - OTP              | 517043   |
| Air Cheongju - CJJ               | 528660   |
| Air Tokyo - NRT                  | 553878   |
| Air Salerno - QSR                | 554906   |
| Air Little Rock - LIT            | 556028   |
| Air Baden-Baden - FKB            | 558819   |
| Air Guangzhou - CAN              | 559204   |
| Air Raleigh/Durham - RDU         | 577358   |
| Air Amsterdam - AMS              | 587566   |
| Air Indianapolis - IND           | 594472   |
| Air Roma - CIA                   | 594930   |
| Air Albuquerque - ABQ            | 600127   |
| Air Athens - ATH                 | 600937   |
| Air Detroit - DTW                | 604498   |
| Air Kansas City - MCI            | 605185   |
| Air Rome - FCO                   | 610069   |
| Air Grottaglie - TAR             | 629584   |
| Air Copenhagen - CPH             | 643705   |
| Air Genova - GOA                 | 650179   |
| Air London - LTN                 | 658503   |
| Air Helsinki - HEL               | 664575   |
| Air Oklahoma City - OKC          | 682785   |
| Air Memphis - MEM                | 711365   |
| Air Tulsa - TUL                  | 713488   |
| Air Birmingham - BHX             | 732222   |
| Air Milan - LIN                  | 759119   |
| Air London - LCY                 | 781516   |
| Air Alicante - ALC               | 792911   |
| Air Nottingham - EMA             | 795826   |
| Air Vienna - VIE                 | 816957   |
| Air Marseille - MRS              | 820173   |
| Air Austin - AUS                 | 831974   |
| Air Catania - CTA                | 836701   |
| Air Berlin - SXF                 | 850924   |
| Air Paris - ORY                  | 874626   |
| Air Jacksonville - JAX           | 894985   |
| Air Doncaster - DSA              | 910585   |
| Air Torino - TRN                 | 914967   |
| Air Bologna - BLQ                | 916441   |
| Air Munich - MUC                 | 962197   |
| Air Leipzig - LEJ                | 1001877  |
| Air Barcelona - BCN              | 1021233  |
| Air Toronto - YYZ                | 1035982  |
| Air Pisa - PSA                   | 1037951  |
| Air Stuttgart - STR              | 1049707  |
| Air Madrid - MAD                 | 1107980  |
| Air Bari - BRI                   | 1109263  |
| Air Paris - CDG                  | 1122978  |
| Air Minneapolis - MSP            | 1143230  |
| Air Bergamo - BGY                | 1166258  |
| Air Nashville - BNA              | 1171216  |
| Air Palermo - PMO                | 1176578  |
| Air Hannover - HAJ               | 1213283  |
| Air Houston - IAH                | 1246636  |
| Air Tokoname - NGO               | 1267728  |
| Air Venice - VCE                 | 1324868  |
| Air San Antonio - SAT            | 1337480  |
| Air Verona - VRN                 | 1428956  |
| Air Philadelphia - PHL           | 1471819  |
| Air Fukuoka - FUK                | 1479751  |
| Air Berlin - TXL                 | 1498949  |
| Air Nápoli - NAP                 | 1562165  |
| Air Chicago - MDW                | 1591334  |
| Air Seoul - GMP                  | 1977929  |
| Air Milan - MXP                  | 1988761  |
| Air London - STN                 | 2036383  |
| Air Hamburg - HAM                | 2141390  |
| Air Manchester - MAN             | 2156792  |
| Air Los Angeles - LAX            | 2165669  |
| Air Tianjin - TSN                | 2241218  |
| Air Osaka - KIX                  | 2266920  |
| Air London - LGW                 | 2541492  |
| Air Hong Kong - HKG              | 2660781  |
| Air Busan - PUS                  | 2683086  |
| Air Cologne - CGN                | 2750333  |
| Air Newark - EWR                 | 2830017  |
| Air Frankfurt-am-Main - FRA      | 3126442  |
| Air Düsseldorf - DUS             | 3166414  |
| Air Osaka - ITM                  | 3571374  |
| Air London - LHR                 | 3870957  |
| Air Shenzhen - SZX               | 4877526  |
| Air Tokyo - HND                  | 7407833  |
+----------------------------------+----------+

patson

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@Blue i had purged some airlines in negative balance before (which is a small portion) and created quite an adverse impact to pax count (most airlines lost 10-20% pax).

I agree that the free base (or perhaps it just level 1 or something) is not fair. I can probably address that by adjusting the base to whatever the actual slots the airline is taking. AI airlines are paying service investment but they usually have very low values

Another big thing that needs fix for AI airlines is that (maybe a bug) some routes can have ridiculous amount of small aircrafts flying :|


Of course, one thing i could do is to take the live data, put it on my local machine, purge the AI and see what happens :P

But having some level of AI is still kinda fun, no?  ;)

bluesky

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In my eyes, the AI is just there to "create" more pax from routes the players aren't operating, they don't really need to be "fair".

Hmm, they have really low profits, but they have a lot of routes with low margins, so making they go in the red could be difficult.
The airline with the lower profits with a still positive budget is Air Melbourne, they would go bankrupt in ~575 weeks (some 10 irl days).
Most aren't even in the red, I guess we'll still have Air Tokyo, London, Frankfurt and such for a long time.

BTW, yes, there's a bug that let the AI have more freq than allowed. I tested this some weeks ago and got a AI route with over 22k capacity flying EMB120.
I forced the gen to create over 200 routes for that airline tho, and I would say that only 10% of the routes were like that, IDK how prevalent that is on the live server with the standard gen.

patson

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In my eyes, the AI is just there to "create" more pax from routes the players aren't operating, they don't really need to be "fair".

Hmm, they have really low profits, but they have a lot of routes with low margins, so making they go in the red could be difficult.
The airline with the lower profits with a still positive budget is Air Melbourne, they would go bankrupt in ~575 weeks (some 10 irl days).
Most aren't even in the red, I guess we'll still have Air Tokyo, London, Frankfurt and such for a long time.

BTW, yes, there's a bug that let the AI have more freq than allowed. I tested this some weeks ago and got a AI route with over 22k capacity flying EMB120.
I forced the gen to create over 200 routes for that airline tho, and I would say that only 10% of the routes were like that, IDK how prevalent that is on the live server with the standard gen.

I could "nuke" away all those routes that have 30+ frequency lol

I agree with your suggestion that it is easier to just remove them. I just need to think more over it first, and observe what the change from yesterday do in the next week. :)

Btw for profit, they will drop eventually due to 2 factors:
1. Flight quality drop - airplane is no longer 100% condition all the time. Though i bet most of the pax for AI airlines are the budget travelers which don't care much about quality
2. Airplane renewal, it will get into waves of airplane renewal later on and it will eat away its profit