Airline Club

Version 2 => Version 2 Updates => Topic started by: patson on March 06, 2019, 12:17:25 am


Title: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on March 06, 2019, 12:17:25 am
Hi Guys!

You probably have noticed I have slowed down on game development and getting on much less than before. I must admit that I lost interest in the game as my airline is quite fully developed.

I still log in once in a while thanks to the great game community but still that alone is not enough to keep players :)

Therefore, I am thinking to add various new game mechanics and overhaul. And there will be a world reset that comes with it, cause with all these new proposed changes (non confirm yet...just new ideas) some established airline is going to be badly hurt. Might as well start over and reset the game world :P

BUT! not all is lost! I am going to introduce some LEGACY bonus so more accomplished airline in this current game world will be rewarded in the new game world (but not too overpowered)


Below is a list of proposed change, take note that all of the below are up for discussion. Just want to brainstorm a little bit here and gather some inputs

Negotiation system
Yep....many of the things below will base on this new system. Getting slots, getting airplane order discount, establishing routes to foreign country, setting up base etc etc

Airlines accumulate negotiation points over time, the rate of accumulation probably has to do with an airline's size or something (to be determined)

Negotiation has certain cool-down period, perhaps one can only negotiate for the same thing every 3 months in-game time for example

Now I know some of you might hate it, but there will be randomness implemented into this (just like any negotiation!)

To initiate negotiation will need certain amount of points. For example:

To negotiate for slots from a scale 5 airport requires 50 negotiation point. And the outcome could be : Great success : 10 slots, Success : 5 slots, Minor Success : 2 slots.  Failed : 0 slots

Some of the harder thing might require several negotiation dialog to push through, for example establishing a foreign base

I know this might turn into a very lame system....but i do want to put it up for suggestions/comments/concerns. I think this system could be interesting if we do it right :)

Country relationship with Airlines
The current game as certain country relationship matrix, and an airline's relationship with a country is fixed by the airline's mother country. This is a good starting point but we can perhaps make this more interesting. I would think each airline should have unique relationship with each country. Certain things that can affect the relationship:
1. Establish flight routes from foreign country to this country with high volume
2. Presence of other foreign airlines in this country - especially airlines from same foreign country (need to fight it out, for example a country would only allow N routes flying to her from a foreign country X - I think this is pretty realistic)

Airport slots
Airport slots are now gained via negotiation. Of course many other factors still affect the outcome:
1. How crowded is the airport
2. How big is your airline
3. Country relationship
4. How many routes do you already have (easier for fresh airlines)

Increased difficulty of flying to already crowed country/airport
It's quite easy...almost too easy now. Any airline as far as having neutral relationship can fly to any other airports. I understand the old route restriction is not welcoming to many players, but I do think having some limit is good, as far we it's something players can work on and see progress (and protection for younger airlines too, it should be relatively easy for them on the first few routes)

If certain airport (size matters too) is already crowded with route flying from certain country X, then it will not easily allow new airline to do it. New airline probably need to opt for other alternative airport of that country or use "negotiation"

Increased difficulty of setting up hubs especially foreign ones
Currently as far as the airline grade is certain level and you have a route flying to certain foreign airport (and country relationship is > 0), then u can setup hub and start flying domestic. That seems a bit weird. I would assume in real world a country wouldn't just let a foreign airline flying domestic like that.

So im thinking that airline's country relationship should play major role here. Only after building up good relationship will the country give a foreign airline to "negotiate" for a hub. Once a hub is setup, it probably will have certain restrictions (for example only allow X number of domestic route and within Y km range etc). Those restrictions will be slowly relaxed as the airline further improve relationship with certain country

Fleet composition
Current game model is pretty flat - airplane model perform the same for all players - same maintenance cost - except that country relationship play certain role (ie Russian cannot buy American jets). We need a new model that is more interesting. That does not necessary mean more realistic but i do want to make the game more interesting. For example sticking with a single manufacturer would give discount and also maintenance bonus. Buying airplanes from certain country will affect airline's relationship with certain country etc etc.

Loyalty competition
Airports in the game world right now can sustain many airlines with high loyalty - as far as all of them provide high quality service and volume. I am thinking to change the game model such that loyalty is "relative" - the loyalty pool is a fixed number (say 100), and will be split to all airlines that flies to this airport - still computed by mostly volume and service level, with hometown airline having some extra bonus.

This should give hometown airline a bigger advantage against foreign airline. And also make it the game more competitive as airlines would have to fight for loyalty.

Loyalty will also play a more dominant factor when virtual pax makes their travel decisions



Probably many more...but i will stop for now...it's getting late :P






Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Pan Am on March 06, 2019, 04:38:58 am
Sounds good
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Dobrolet on March 06, 2019, 05:20:00 am
Why not make the game round based, for example the server lasts from 1990 to 2020 (and speed like one actual day is a months) and the winners and high finishers get medals. We could have a new server starting every months or so. Airplane models need fixing with correct data(they are not realistic right now)

You definitely need to monetise the game for a better server and ice-cream. As an example sell in game currency for 1usd = 1 million in game or something(so its not too overpowered and attractive to use), maybe some advert banners.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Morb on March 06, 2019, 08:00:47 am
As I said before I would really love the game to be in cycles of smth like 3 months, where each time you could try out different concepts. Mainly because I feel like at some point the "lategame" is nonexistant, the only thing left to do is micromanaging prices which is just tedious and no fun.

But overall a reset is totally necessary and should be enough for the moment. Including new features right now would probably only let the rich people benefit even more (or **** them ;D).

To your proposed changes.. I cant really imagine how the Negotiation system will work then, but if you think it will work go for it. Overall it sounds that the game will be more challenging which is good imo. My main motivation to play a game like this is to climb the ladder, so as long stuff is not to unbalanced I will try that again.

You definitely need to monetise the game for a better server and ice-cream. As an example sell in game currency for 1usd = 1 million in game or something(so its not too overpowered and attractive to use), maybe some advert banners.

As soon as one could buy advantages with real money I would never touch the game again.

Sadly I had to cut my Patreon support cause I didn't feel like there was any development worth supporting in the last months, but I will be glad to donate money again when there are some changes that make it worth playing again.

BUT! not all is lost! I am going to introduce some LEGACY bonus so more accomplished airline in this current game world will be rewarded in the new game world (but not too overpowered)

I hope that bonus will be LEGENDARY for me ;)

Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: trans nations on March 06, 2019, 12:03:03 pm
Another observation I have is the Alliance system.

In the current world, an alliance is somehow important for an airline to grow - points (most important), connections, etc.

It's a pain to see members' leave, and it will be difficult to switch alliance (as you've been adapting the alliance since day 1)

So I would suggest keeping the alliance system but make it more flexible and with less impact on the points.

Partner system would be good for players who don't want to join an alliance. A player can select other airlines (with a limit for sure)
as their partner.

Also, I would like to have an investment/stock system so you can spend (or gain) money from others.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: guest126 on March 06, 2019, 12:24:46 pm
there will be a world reset that comes with it, I am going to introduce some LEGACY bonus so more accomplished airline in this current game world will be rewarded in the new game world

I'm all for a world reset, especially with such game-play altering changes, because of this im actually against the idea of a legacy bonus. I'm not just saying that because I want an advantage. I'm ranked #39 in terms of PAX so I also have a lot to gain from a legacy bonus. I know you said it wouldn't be too overpowered, but if the game get's new mechanics, and they are harder and/or add some random elements it would give current players a headstart, it also wouldn't allow us to know what it's actually like operating as a new airline. These combined would mean airlines that do well simply for being big will benefit, it won't allow for airline with better skill/management to catch up.



Airlines accumulate negotiation points over time, the rate of accumulation probably has to do with an airline's size or something (to be determined)

Feel like it should be a combination of profit margins and reputation. If it was just size you get the issue where if I join the game later and am smaller doesn't matter how much better I'm operating, I will always lose out. By doing it on profit margins it will be based on the 'success' of operating at your current size. In real life some Airlines are in different markets, some do small regional routes, some do global routes. Although the global airline might make more the local airline might be operating better in its current market.

edit:
I typed that but re-reading I disagree with myself. Pax and reputation would be much better. PAX is a better indicator of potential money. Looking up the numbers Lufthansa earns way more than EasyJet but EasyJet carry way more pax. If it was an airport they would likely care about the airline which could bring them the most potential passengers. If you wanted cheaper planes I think the negotiating power should depend on how much profit you make and how many planes from the same company you operate, are you a loyal customer? If it's a foreign country they would most likely care about profits and reputation. I can't decide myself, would like to hear another viewpoint on this.



there will be randomness implemented into this (just like any negotiation!)

Big fan of this, just like real life, sometimes things go your way, other times not. Also makes the game for exciting.



Some of the harder thing might require several negotiation dialog to push through, for example establishing a foreign base

I like this idea, I don't think it should be that you have to do a set number of negotiations, perhaps just make the odds really slim, then players have to weigh up if it's worth it to keep trying or focus on a differant county. If you're lucky it could happen first time, it's rare, but could happen, or you have to waste so many of these 'points' trying to achieve something that it was ultimately a waste. Adds a fun sunk cost fallacy problem.



I know this might turn into a very lame system....but i do want to put it up for suggestions/comments/concerns. I think this system could be interesting if we do it right :)

Agreed, I really like this idea. I definitely think the game needs that extra kick to make it less spreadsheet managment and more strategy/chance based.



especially airlines from same foreign country (need to fight it out, for example a country would only allow N routes flying to her from a foreign country X

Again really like this idea. It creates a more narrow competition, also allows for greater domestic competition as currently the games pretty global and if you don't succeed in your country you just try somewhere else. It will make choosing a starting location much more important.



Airport slots are now gained via negotiation. Of course many other factors still affect the outcome:
1. How crowded is the airport
2. How big is your airline
3. Country relationship
4. How many routes do you already have (easier for fresh airlines)

I think when you become the major stake in an airport and are the number #1 airline (in terms of PAX) the airport should stop offering you new slots (or make it very expensive). A airport wouldn't want to be controlled by a single airlines market dominance. It would also create rivalry's between the first and second biggest airlines at an airport, making the fight to 'champion' an airport harder. It also allows for small airlines to grow with relative ease but force large airlines to expand to another airport. It would also mean large airlines that still want to grow at this airport would need to get bigger planes to fly more pax. This would make smaller regional routes with smaller planes less attractive, this makes it better for smaller airlines and stops large players from operating small profit losing routes to 'bully' out smaller players. Also prevents one airline just utterly taking control of a airport like Gatwick.



So im thinking that airline's country relationship should play major role here.

Like the idea of making it harder to operate abroad, adds more focus domestically, like I was saying I chose the UK to start in but at this point, MJN airline can operate anywhere pretty much without much thought, If the UK market tanked for me overnight I could just up sticks and move. Which isn't very realistic, an airline would almost certainly focus domestically first.



For example sticking with a single manufacturer would give discount and also maintenance bonus.

YES! Been wanting this for a long time. I feel being UK based and the fact the majority of my market is in Europe I should almost entirely be Airbus, but I'm not, in reality, I only choose the Airbus planes I do because they are the best. In real life, I would be incentivised to focus on Airbus and get benefits from the countries that contribute to it such as France, Spain, and Germany.




Overall really like these suggestions, personally a big fan. Keep up the great work. Love it. Also, these are just my initial thoughts, might read it later and realise a flaw in my thinking. Would love to know what others think.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Trissi on March 06, 2019, 01:42:02 pm
I think the ideas mentioned are good. How long of a time do you plan in for it patson?  :D ,  just curious on how long about maybe. xD
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Edoebzd on March 06, 2019, 03:10:35 pm
I think you should add the possibility to lease planes from other airlines or from the manufacturer. For expample you lease a plane for 5 years, during this period you will pay an amount of money at a monthly rate to the owner of the aircraft, but you can use it on your routes. At the end of the leasing contract (if the owner wants) you can buy the plane with a discount or lease it for another period at a reduced price.
If you lease a lot of aircraft from the same airline/manufactor you will get reduced fares and a higher probability to be able to buy the aircraft at the end of the contract (this doesn't apply if the owner is a human).

Another idea for V2 is to add the possibility to make itermediate stops during a flight (for expample you need to go from airport A to airport C, but by the way you stop also at airport B where you can load/unload passenger and fuel).

Another idea is to add (as an option) IFE on board (costs more but attracts more passenger expecially on long routes)  and/or snacks/meals/gadgets/wifi/... more things you add more passenger you will attract, but costs will rise.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: neez on March 06, 2019, 07:39:53 pm
Well... to be honest, I'm not as enthusiastic as others here. I started roughly two months ago and I'm now finally in a position where I think I have a decently sized, well running airline. So the prospect to fall back to C421s doesn't seem so tempting right now... I would, I love the game, but personally a reset now is a bit frustrating to me.



I think you should add the possibility to lease planes from other airlines or from the manufacturer. For expample you lease a plane for 5 years, during this period you will pay an amount of money at a monthly rate to the owner of the aircraft, but you can use it on your routes. At the end of the leasing contract (if the owner wants) you can buy the plane with a discount or lease it for another period at a reduced price.
If you lease a lot of aircraft from the same airline/manufactor you will get reduced fares and a higher probability to be able to buy the aircraft at the end of the contract (this doesn't apply if the owner is a human).
How is this different than taking out a loan and buy the aircraft?
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: bluesky on March 08, 2019, 02:54:30 pm
Hmm, nice.
About the airplane model remake, new buildings, advertisement, airport expansion and other stuff you mentioned?
Will that happen before V2, so you can test how it goes, or at the same time? (or not at all?)
Do you have an ETA (days, weeks, months?)?
I'm waiting for a world reset to start playing again, but I'm not really motivated if the new stuff are just minor things you could add/modify in the current world.

Also, about monetizing the game. You should do that by increasing the amount of people playing, not by selling ingame buffs, even more so if it's a competitive MP game like this.
IMO, if you want to make more money out of this, you'll need a clear roadmap with clearly defined goals and deadlines. (Morb said earlier he's not donating anymore because something like this).
You'll need to make people donate because they believe that, even if they don't think the game is good enough atm, you will keep adding stuff that interest them.
Basically, you'll have to take the game seriously, not as a hobby (and I know that if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't).

Obviously, I'm not donating anything so you could just tell me to **** off.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: bluesky on March 08, 2019, 03:00:06 pm
How is this different than taking out a loan and buy the aircraft?

It's basically the difference between borrowing the aircraft or borrowing the money.
IRL (in my country at least), leasing has lower taxes because it isn't classified as a financial operation (no banks involved) and offers lower risks to both parties.
IDK how you would simulate this ingame tho.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Morb on March 08, 2019, 03:08:45 pm
A word to monetization again.. I would totally be ready to donate like 10$/month if the game makes me want to play. But I think the latest real update to the game was end of november, which was only a change to the pax model and some other minor stuff, so no real features gameplaywise. Since then there were some anouncements for airport expansion and things that never happened so I didnt felt like my patreon support was justified anymore.

Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: california on March 08, 2019, 03:25:13 pm
I've got mixed feelings on this reset. Though I understand the grounds and the logic makes sense, I believe that market forces (or disinterest) drives airlines out of competition/into oblivion. At the same time, a lot of airlines are inactive but still haunting the game world. Then again, there are also so many bugs/glitches that a hard reset would probably fix.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on March 10, 2019, 01:05:06 am
Started some coding on V2 already :)

Yes...one of the fixes is to make it easier to fight inactive airlines
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: alex on March 10, 2019, 11:21:34 pm
I don't know if providing legacy airlines a bonus is a good idea. I think the right model is something like a bankruptcy bonus: that is, if you get really big, and then voluntarily hit the bankruptcy button, you lose everything but now get some kind of bonus (that is otherwise impossible to get) as you rebuild from scratch. This could even be cumulative through multiple resets. As such you would get constant churn out of the top airlines.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: alex on March 10, 2019, 11:22:23 pm
Also I just noticed my Patreon subscription lapsed and - sorry about that! I didn't intend to do that because I was going inactive, I just had a billing error I forgot to fix.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on March 11, 2019, 12:32:36 pm
Heya Alex! Good to see u again ;)

For the legacy bonus it should be minor and temporary - for example a bit more negotiation point at the beginning. it will not be something lasting throughout the game

Though I might add something cosmetic for top 20 players like a badge or something :) ?
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Bolingbroke on March 11, 2019, 01:46:22 pm
Very interesting concepts, I agree that a complete reset is necessary.  My friends and I started a little over 2 months ago, and I kind of feel we have hit our limit with how crowded things are, almost everyone in my alliance is in second rate hub cities, and it does really make a difference how many people we can move. That, and making reputation is like just finding small countries and losing money on the routes, as there is no way to fight for the big countries really.  More dynamics will help, but also just getting rid of dead airlines will be nice.

Can't say I see a use in a rental system as someone suggested, someone else made the point it was the same as taking out a loan pretty much, which already exists.

I think... the best addition would be route planning, that way larger capacity planes can be spread out more, and less slots utilized. 
 The cool thing about this game is that it is simple management, compared to other airline games.  Negotiation may negate this, if you are buying slots the whole way through, then that is another chore than simply getting PAX to an airport, loyalty, and upgrading base levels.

I am all for the reputation between countries and airlines, and making it more interesting how to get a hub.  One thing that might hurt though is down the road when there are as many big airlines as there are now, it may be too hard for newer people to get into larger more desired countries (and smaller countries with less airports)

Overall reputation is the thing that really gets me though, I think the system needs  to allow for growing stronger even if you cannot get on the board with other countries.   Maybe it is based off of reputation with individual countries, not just being in top 10 or top 5. Even if it measures it in micro-steps for the poorest countries.

IFE is interesting, but I think a lot of people, especially early on, are just trying to fill planes, a lot of us still have not got into major competition to woo first class, so making things to increase flight quality are interesting, but might be over-complicating.  I mean in the end, how many of you are not flying 5 star service quality? Are you really going to not put TVs on your planes if given the choice?

Just some thoughts... Excited to see where it all goes in the future.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on March 11, 2019, 02:51:23 pm
Very interesting concepts, I agree that a complete reset is necessary.  My friends and I started a little over 2 months ago, and I kind of feel we have hit our limit with how crowded things are, almost everyone in my alliance is in second rate hub cities, and it does really make a difference how many people we can move. That, and making reputation is like just finding small countries and losing money on the routes, as there is no way to fight for the big countries really.  More dynamics will help, but also just getting rid of dead airlines will be nice.

Can't say I see a use in a rental system as someone suggested, someone else made the point it was the same as taking out a loan pretty much, which already exists.

I think... the best addition would be route planning, that way larger capacity planes can be spread out more, and less slots utilized. 
 The cool thing about this game is that it is simple management, compared to other airline games.  Negotiation may negate this, if you are buying slots the whole way through, then that is another chore than simply getting PAX to an airport, loyalty, and upgrading base levels.

I am all for the reputation between countries and airlines, and making it more interesting how to get a hub.  One thing that might hurt though is down the road when there are as many big airlines as there are now, it may be too hard for newer people to get into larger more desired countries (and smaller countries with less airports)

Overall reputation is the thing that really gets me though, I think the system needs  to allow for growing stronger even if you cannot get on the board with other countries.   Maybe it is based off of reputation with individual countries, not just being in top 10 or top 5. Even if it measures it in micro-steps for the poorest countries.

IFE is interesting, but I think a lot of people, especially early on, are just trying to fill planes, a lot of us still have not got into major competition to woo first class, so making things to increase flight quality are interesting, but might be over-complicating.  I mean in the end, how many of you are not flying 5 star service quality? Are you really going to not put TVs on your planes if given the choice?

Just some thoughts... Excited to see where it all goes in the future.

Thank you for all the ideas!

I don't have plans to get rid of the reputation system - at least not for now. But again V2 is still in very early brainstorm stage so anything could happen :P

One thing for sure is we want to make inactive airlines to go away quicker - I don't want to remove airlines if they have not logged in for the last N days, but the plan is to make it easier to kick inactive airlines out of the market - It's kinda detailed in the other post about route rework

a TLDR version is that for routes that are constantly under certain LF will be forced to terminate its route by the airport authority. Therefore inactive airlines are very susceptible to attacks like price cut if they don't adapt accordingly (negotiate to reduce volume, or drop price to up the LF etc etc)

And perhaps if a hub has been inactive for too long the airport authority will force closure of it too :)

Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: bluesky on March 11, 2019, 11:50:51 pm
I'm going to suggest something weird and will probably get some flak, but f it.

What if you randomized a bit the countries income lvl and even the cities populations?

ATM there are some obviously better countries that you can't really ignore if you want to be #1. I fear that all the most experienced players will all create HQ's in JFK, LHR, HND and FRA. I'm sure as hell will.
I think the game would be hell of a lot more fun if the pop and income were a bit more spread out and not so concentrated on europe. Imagine if South Africa end up with an income lvl of 49 while Germany gets 28, imagine if Las Vegas had 12mi pop and Tokyo only 600k. There could be a lot of different strategies and would be way more fun trying to find good routes in a new world.
I know that this would throw any kind of IRL resemblance to the bin, but tbh, all planes are ridiculously far from IRL performance and the income lvl system is a little broken, anyone trying some real roleplay can't do it anyway, so you might as well go nuts.
I would love that way more than any new feature.

I've always liked the Space and Beyond thingy because of this, you don't need to be restricted by IRL numbers, you can create what's more fun to play.
My dream would be a random world with random countries and ****, but I know that would take a ridiculous amount of work.
Randomizing the cities pop and countries income level is crazy easy tho. So easy actually, that I did it myself with the cities pop. (crude tho, just multiplied the city pop by a random number between 0.01 and 4)
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: 388Crazy on March 12, 2019, 05:05:50 am
I actually like that idea Bluesky, I think it would make it more interesting.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on March 12, 2019, 10:57:14 am
Hey bluesky o/

crap....my cat whacked his tail on the keyboard and deleted my whole reply...i squeezed his tail hard grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Anyway, short version :
If we have multiple running servers then we can for sure have an "imaginary" world with unrealistic data.

I think the core of the problem right now as u pointed out is that some countries are heavily favored (mostly higher income ones). That's probably something we can work with in V2. I don't have any solid plans on that yet :) still working on the pieces one by one!

Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: zuoyi on March 14, 2019, 02:22:27 pm
Heya Alex! Good to see u again ;)

For the legacy bonus it should be minor and temporary - for example a bit more negotiation point at the beginning. it will not be something lasting throughout the game

Though I might add something cosmetic for top 20 players like a badge or something :) ?

Cash is the best bonus for me :D At least the bonus is proportional to cash balance/reputation points.

Air China
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: vani56 on March 18, 2019, 02:14:48 am
The biggest problem in this game is that it has too much unrealistic elements - unrealistic planes(787 seats 250 pax in the game), unrealistic fuel consumption, unrealistic limitations on routes. Most people playing those type of airline simulation games are avgeeks wanting realistic experience(especially when it comes to plane database) even if it means unbalanced game. Neither airlinesim or airline-empires implement such unrealistic elements and for a reason. If they do, they will probably lose half their player base.
It's kind of strange as this game has the most realistic pax system out there, yet it can't seem to get it right in other areas.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Andrew on March 19, 2019, 08:19:55 am
Hey bluesky o/

crap....my cat whacked his tail on the keyboard and deleted my whole reply...i squeezed his tail hard grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Anyway, short version :
If we have multiple running servers then we can for sure have an "imaginary" world with unrealistic data.

I think the core of the problem right now as u pointed out is that some countries are heavily favored (mostly higher income ones). That's probably something we can work with in V2. I don't have any solid plans on that yet :) still working on the pieces one by one!

But isn't it realistic that some countries are more favoured? Not all countries are created equal in the real world...Though I agree there's some issues with the passenger model and countries being favoured. For example, I'm trying to fly from Lagos to Accra and Abidjan, which are pretty much the biggest cities in West Africa with multiple flights between them IRL, but I can't even fill a 44-seater Embraer at below average price.

My big idea for the game is to scrap the reputation system and rank airlines on profit and passenger numbers. Also, something needs to be done about the connecting flights system, which is the bane of any airline game's existence. While you have the most realistic connecting system in any game, the fact remains that taking a connecting flight is simply adding the prices of two flights, when IRL connecting flights are usually cheaper than direct flights. But I know this is hard, and as far as I know no airline game has been able to do it.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: yellowcandle on March 21, 2019, 07:26:47 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thqbjA2DC-E

Please consider implementing The Five Freedoms of Air (so that we can set up technical stops and routes with stops)
Also, Please provide more metrics in the route report, like profit per passenger-km flown etc. (At the very least, make the table easier to be pasted into excel!)
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on March 23, 2019, 12:59:10 pm
Hey bluesky o/

crap....my cat whacked his tail on the keyboard and deleted my whole reply...i squeezed his tail hard grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Anyway, short version :
If we have multiple running servers then we can for sure have an "imaginary" world with unrealistic data.

I think the core of the problem right now as u pointed out is that some countries are heavily favored (mostly higher income ones). That's probably something we can work with in V2. I don't have any solid plans on that yet :) still working on the pieces one by one!

But isn't it realistic that some countries are more favoured? Not all countries are created equal in the real world...Though I agree there's some issues with the passenger model and countries being favoured. For example, I'm trying to fly from Lagos to Accra and Abidjan, which are pretty much the biggest cities in West Africa with multiple flights between them IRL, but I can't even fill a 44-seater Embraer at below average price.

My big idea for the game is to scrap the reputation system and rank airlines on profit and passenger numbers. Also, something needs to be done about the connecting flights system, which is the bane of any airline game's existence. While you have the most realistic connecting system in any game, the fact remains that taking a connecting flight is simply adding the prices of two flights, when IRL connecting flights are usually cheaper than direct flights. But I know this is hard, and as far as I know no airline game has been able to do it.

In terms of coding and UI design wise, it's not super hard (i did think a bit on the algorithm and UI would just be an extra settings to give discount if it's transit flight etc).

The harder part however, is to maintain the gameplay balance of route profitability ...usually the game balances itself out until all players's profit is razor thin. There are several issues tho that could be hard to address, for one, bigger airlines have better network hence already has a uphand in getting transit passenger, allowing discount on transit flight will probably give big airlines even more advantage and new airlines will be harder to compete - that might not be too bad but it's just a balance issue that sometimes is hard to tackle

Besides, it might be a bit complicated to present the profit data as it's a combination of things

I agree that this will make the game more realistic but the extra "fun factor" it brings might be rather limited, i will keep that on my list but probably need to check more stuff off the list before i would have time to tackle this one ;)
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Fuddnir Johansson on April 01, 2019, 05:10:24 am
I think the right model is something like a bankruptcy bonus: that is, if you get really big, and then voluntarily hit the bankruptcy button, you lose everything but now get some kind of bonus (that is otherwise impossible to get) as you rebuild from scratch. This could even be cumulative through multiple resets.
As long as the effect has diminishing returns. Like if each added bonus only has 50% of the effect of the previous. This way, a bankruptcy would normally pay $50M, with one bonus, it would be $75M (50+(50*.5)), with two it would be $87.5M (50+(50*.5*.5)) etc. This would give people an edge, but not so big an edge that they have a personal iWin-button. ;)
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on April 02, 2019, 01:48:56 pm
I think the right model is something like a bankruptcy bonus: that is, if you get really big, and then voluntarily hit the bankruptcy button, you lose everything but now get some kind of bonus (that is otherwise impossible to get) as you rebuild from scratch. This could even be cumulative through multiple resets.
As long as the effect has diminishing returns. Like if each added bonus only has 50% of the effect of the previous. This way, a bankruptcy would normally pay $50M, with one bonus, it would be $75M (50+(50*.5)), with two it would be $87.5M (50+(50*.5*.5)) etc. This would give people an edge, but not so big an edge that they have a personal iWin-button. ;)

Ah cool. Ya i still haven't really worked out the details yet so any thoughts/ideas would help ;)
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Brad on April 19, 2019, 09:31:18 pm

Therefore, I am thinking to add various new game mechanics and overhaul. And there will be a world reset that comes with it, cause with all these new proposed changes (non confirm yet...just new ideas) some established airline is going to be badly hurt. Might as well start over and reset the game world :P


Would there have to be a world restart, or could you implement a button that would allow users that would like to restart the opportunity to?
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: busterifle on April 21, 2019, 02:44:49 am

Therefore, I am thinking to add various new game mechanics and overhaul. And there will be a world reset that comes with it, cause with all these new proposed changes (non confirm yet...just new ideas) some established airline is going to be badly hurt. Might as well start over and reset the game world :P


Would there have to be a world restart, or could you implement a button that would allow users that would like to restart the opportunity to?

I believe it's going to be a world restart, but I could be wrong!
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: zuoyi on April 24, 2019, 10:09:48 pm
Any updates on V2?
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on April 26, 2019, 10:31:25 am
There will be a world restart for sure for V2

Sorry no updates yet. I have been kinda busy lately, hopefully better next month. (assuming I don't get new PC games lol)
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: IQuit on May 01, 2019, 08:29:23 pm
randomness implemented into this
The problem with randomness is difficulty in spotting bugs. Unless you tested it with all input parameters varied over thousands of iterations, otherwise a single typo in the equation can go unnoticed forever.

Certain things that can affect the relationship:
How about donation to the airport authority? This could act as a money sink to curb exponential expansion.

sticking with a single manufacturer would give discount and also maintenance bonus
Small manufacturers will have to be more linear towards customers, else everybody will only be buying Boeing and Airbus.

Buying airplanes from certain country will affect airline's relationship with certain country etc etc.
This makes it unfair to countries without manufacturers since their relationships become harder to improve.

thinking to change the game model such that loyalty is "relative"
How about removing openness, loyalty, awareness, reputation, global service level (which gives established airlines advantage over new airlines), etc and replace all of them with relationships (with airport and country) alone?
You start with your home country relationships and as you improve relationships with some airports / countries, relationships with other airports will drop, i.e. the whole world has a fixed number relationship points for you to be distributed among the airports.
When you reach the ultimate maximum of the relationship with an airport, you can even relocate your HQ to that airport.
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: SkyFly on July 09, 2019, 11:29:31 am
Hi Guys

Any news on the V2 and game reset?
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: patson on July 13, 2019, 01:30:29 am
Sorry SkyFly, no updates yet. I am still busy

But at least i fixed some bugs last week :)

V2 is not abandoned, I will likely resume development after my busy summer season :)

Thanks for the support again!
Title: Re: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot
Post by: Denson on July 28, 2019, 08:19:16 am
Some ideas for V2:

- An advanced aircraft scheduling system, allowing one aircraft to fly multiple routes. That's how it's done in real life too. Would greatly appreciate the possibility to generate a weekly schedule for each aircraft that can contain multiple routes. Of course with the possibility of easily transferring a flight from one aircraft to another without having to reconfigure it.

- Variation in ticket prices. As it is now, all seats for a certain class are sold at the same price. That's not realistic, in real life there are different prices for each seat or number of seats. Some airlines keep their minimum and maximum ticket prices close together, offering little variation. Others have larger differences, allowing some seats to be extremely cheap while others are expensive.

- Specification of service level. In the current game, service level is just a number. I would like to specify the details, like for example do you charge for checked luggage or not and how much? If you charge for it, this will generate ancillary revenue however not from everyone as there will be passengers without checked luggage. Also will you provide free meals / snacks on board or do you charge for them? And if you charge for them, how much?