Author Topic: New Airplane changes  (Read 191 times)

patson

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
New Airplane changes
« on: December 06, 2019, 12:12:47 pm »
Was discussed in in-game chat. Just want to do a quick summary here so I wouldn't forget:

1. The "replace" option will now be "refurbish", it will no longer give u an instant 100% new airplane again. Instead, it will increase the airplane condition only to certain amount (based on the age of the aircraft) Completely remove the the replace option
2. The 2nd hand airplane market will have less airplane. Now it's flooded with too airplanes
3. autorenewal stills give u a 100% airplane. Though auto-renewal would only work on airplane that u owned for more than the construction cycle required for an airplane. auto-renewal is basically u order a new airplane X cycle ahead of time so u can retire the old one
4. Color code the used airplane a bit - make it easier to spot good deals. For example airplane at 80% - 90% the price will be colored as green or something

Please lemme know if you have any thoughts, comments or concerns ;D
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 07:17:41 pm by patson »

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


LuckyPierre

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2019, 01:02:29 pm »
The cost of maintaining airplanes is huge now... I don't like option 1.   I think for option 2-airplanes should 'expire' off the market after some period of time (52 weeks?).

:)

Stoich

  • Guest
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2019, 01:32:36 pm »
This is not going to bring a solution to the problem you're trying to fix.

1. As long as you have a way to replace planes with new planes and instant delivery of used planes the problem will be there. By adding time to when the plane can be replaced you'll only reduce the range of used planes condition at which they would be useful to be bought and not solve the issue at hand. That however is not that much of a problem as is right now, as most people do not replace planes at extremely low condition to begin with.

2. Adding "refurbishing" will not change anything, as players can manually order new planes and replace the old ones once they arrive, then sell the old ones. What the "refurbishing" thing will do though is add unnecessary micromanagement and tediousness.


There are 2 possible solutions to this problem, one along the logic you;re using - namely, add the "build duration" for new planes to the "replace" functionality. Basically every time you replace a plane, it does not happen right away as is now, instead an order is placed as if a new plane was ordered and the replacement happens after the plane arrives. This will add some load and computation I'm sure.

The other way is simply to put a "wait time" of x weeks for used planes to arrive after purchase.

In the end the used plane market is used to gain access to planes "on the spot" and start using them on routes right away and the replacement is secondary.

vani56

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2019, 01:43:42 pm »
I'm down for something more drastic. Remove auto-renewal and force us to manually plan when to order planes for replacement. As for refurbish button - it should be like a cabin renovation, plane age stays the same, just a boost of pax satisfaction and make it cheaper though. Perhaps if maintenance is introduced we could have the plane condition affecting delays/cancellation separate from cabin refurbish. Maintenance can be monthly fee, perhaps depending on a provider you pick and depending on type of plane - more expensive for a bigger plane. This should restore balance should you decide to make fuel efficieny accurate.
I would also love to see different seating options - more dense, more luxurious. SQ expenses will need to go down for this change to compensate for loss of cabin density. All this will allow for more types of game strategies possible and could truly be rewarding to more active players. I believe it will also attract new players and make them stay.

patson

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 01:48:09 pm »
The cost of maintaining airplanes is huge now... I don't like option 1.   I think for option 2-airplanes should 'expire' off the market after some period of time (52 weeks?).

:)

kekeke, but isn't option 1 more realistic? like you get a 25 year old airplane, u can only do so much to improve it back to better shape?

Airplanes already expire off the market if the price drops too much right now :) It's just that even with that, there are still too many leftover airplanes

patson

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 02:03:06 pm »
This is not going to bring a solution to the problem you're trying to fix.

1. As long as you have a way to replace planes with new planes and instant delivery of used planes the problem will be there. By adding time to when the plane can be replaced you'll only reduce the range of used planes condition at which they would be useful to be bought and not solve the issue at hand. That however is not that much of a problem as is right now, as most people do not replace planes at extremely low condition to begin with.

2. Adding "refurbishing" will not change anything, as players can manually order new planes and replace the old ones once they arrive, then sell the old ones. What the "refurbishing" thing will do though is add unnecessary micromanagement and tediousness.


There are 2 possible solutions to this problem, one along the logic you;re using - namely, add the "build duration" for new planes to the "replace" functionality. Basically every time you replace a plane, it does not happen right away as is now, instead an order is placed as if a new plane was ordered and the replacement happens after the plane arrives. This will add some load and computation I'm sure.

The other way is simply to put a "wait time" of x weeks for used planes to arrive after purchase.

In the end the used plane market is used to gain access to planes "on the spot" and start using them on routes right away and the replacement is secondary.

1. "By adding time to when the plane can be replaced you'll only reduce the range of used planes condition at which they would be useful to be bought and not solve the issue at hand." <- i think it will still be useful to buy 2nd hand airplane? For example u get a condition 45% one, and u have auto-renewal at 50%, say construction time is 16 weeks. Then i will still use that 45% airplane for 16 weeks until my re-ordering of the new airplane replace it at the 16th week? It is still useful if i want an airplane NOW. If i want better condition, i can refurbish it a bit? The problem i try to solve is that an airline can get a brand new 100% RIGHT the way at any time. So i think this fixes the problem? :)

2. "That however is not that much of a problem as is right now, as most people do not replace planes at extremely low condition to begin with." <- This might not be an issue for airlines that do not use that exploit. By I DO lol. I get always get an instant 100% airplane right the way if i spend a bit more money (very little bit more, like 20% perhaps?) I think this is just NOT right

3. "Adding "refurbishing" will not change anything, as players can manually order new planes and replace the old ones once they arrive, then sell the old ones. What the "refurbishing" thing will do though is add unnecessary micromanagement and tediousness." <- I think what you said is correct. I am just trying to cater to some smaller airlines that can afford 2nd hand airplane only (and don't want to wait) and make the airplane slightly better. I do agree that it could be micromanagement in some sense as people might come back and do it repeatedly (my design is to only allow to go back to X% based on age Y, and at some point of age, refurbish is no longer useful anymore and the airplane would have to retire)

4. "Basically every time you replace a plane, it does not happen right away as is now, instead an order is placed as if a new plane was ordered and the replacement happens after the plane arrives. This will add some load and computation I'm sure." <- ya a possible solution, but it requires changes to data structure and model (and possibly UI too, to mark when will the airplane be replaced). Think i will just stick with the "auto-renewal" option for now :) instead of giving a more mico-version of it. You can argue that the "auto-renewal" thing could be a cheat too. Cause if u change it to a lower threshold, you will get ALL the airplanes u purchased before cycle X renewed, which is not right - as you did NOT place a replacement order before that. However, it still solves the problem of instant-buy-2nd-hand-and-replace.

5. "The other way is simply to put a "wait time" of x weeks for used planes to arrive after purchase." <- not for now. People are already getting annoyed about the construction time. I don't want to put more hurdles on buying off the 2nd hand market. It will really **** people off if they want to increase capacity but cannot do it right the way even from the 2nd hand market.


Thanks for the suggestions again! I think I kinda lean towards removing the "replace" option from the airplane completely now and only allow auto-renewal with the "purchased cycle" check


patson

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 02:10:38 pm »
I'm down for something more drastic. Remove auto-renewal and force us to manually plan when to order planes for replacement. As for refurbish button - it should be like a cabin renovation, plane age stays the same, just a boost of pax satisfaction and make it cheaper though. Perhaps if maintenance is introduced we could have the plane condition affecting delays/cancellation separate from cabin refurbish. Maintenance can be monthly fee, perhaps depending on a provider you pick and depending on type of plane - more expensive for a bigger plane. This should restore balance should you decide to make fuel efficieny accurate.
I would also love to see different seating options - more dense, more luxurious. SQ expenses will need to go down for this change to compensate for loss of cabin density. All this will allow for more types of game strategies possible and could truly be rewarding to more active players. I believe it will also attract new players and make them stay.

Thanks GR! <3

I cannot remove auto-renewal tho...cause honestly that would turn into a micro-management hell....i thought u own the most airplanes....wouldn't you hate to replace them manually??? ;)

As for separating cabin refurbish vs actual airplane condition and different types of seating, tweaks to airplane  - I think other games are doing that, I agree those are more realistic, but what really kinda stop me is:
I don't really have the time to write all those extra code lol.

Another concern for me tho, is when i first designed the game, i deliberately ruled those out very early in the development stage - i see other games ARE indeed doing that - customization of the airplane and stuff - I tried those myself, it was fun maybe for the first few mins, but then later on i found it's either "chores" or something that I just ignore cause it's kinda useless. Therefore I kinda abstract those details away and just put it in the big "SQ" bucket and also the class configuration :)

I do agree that it  might allow some meaningful gameplay with customization. But it's very hard to execute it right to avoid the "chore" or "useless" part. At least to me, other games have failed to make it meaningful in long run, and i just wanted to avoid that pitfall by not going into that at all lol . And again, coding those extra details in could be very challenging - and surely with some value added but not enough (at least to me...sorry im very subjective on the game design sometimes ;) ) to justify the dev cost.


LuckyPierre

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2019, 07:49:32 pm »
The cost of maintaining airplanes is huge now... I don't like option 1.   I think for option 2-airplanes should 'expire' off the market after some period of time (52 weeks?).

:)

kekeke, but isn't option 1 more realistic? like you get a 25 year old airplane, u can only do so much to improve it back to better shape?

Airplanes already expire off the market if the price drops too much right now :) It's just that even with that, there are still too many leftover airplanes

Ohh.. Realistic? Like landing an A380 at San Diego? ;) LOL
Funny Funny x 1 View List

patson

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2019, 03:57:40 am »
Implementation is completed, will be deployed tomorrow probably with the "about" page

Stoich

  • Guest
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2019, 01:24:17 pm »
Well yes, but it makes no sense to buy 45% condition planes and replace right away when you can by 65-75% condition planes, use for 200-300 weeks and replace then. Only very few models actually don't have the liquidity for that.

Anyway as long as you have auto-replace, you'll have that option unless you code that newly acquired planes cannot be sold in the first X weeks, which will create a host of other issues. Adding more steps or hoops to jump through to do it, will not solve it, just make it more cumbersome for the ordinary player, but the ones that benefit the most will still do it.

Generally speaking making it more complicated to do will discourage the casual player but not the dedicated player, this is why I was saying it would not solve the problem you wish to solve as there is a route to it still, even if more roundabout then before.

Stoich

  • Guest
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2019, 09:23:57 am »
If I may suggest an added change....

As manual replacement now entitles to order the new planes and wait for them to arrive before manually switching the old for new planes.... this makes it imperative to be online in the week the ordered planes arrive or you start incurring losses and depreciation without utilizing the new ones.

So my proposal is to add a button where you can receive your ordered planes after they were "built" manually when you're online even if that means later then the prescribed time for delivery. This will allow players to receive their planes when they're online if they decide to do manual replacements which is something that a lot of newer and younger airlines do to maximize their ability to grow and use limited funds.

Basically for example the A380:

"build and delivery time:48 weeks"

It counts down until the 48 weeks is at zero and a "receive button appears" where the planes are held back until the button is clicked and the age of the plane starts to be counted from the moment the plane is received.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Denson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 02:27:14 pm »
I'm actually really pissed off the replace button in the airplane details page has been removed. As a matter of fact, I feel like pulling the plug on my airline right now. Push the "declare bankruptcy" button, logout and never login again.

I will give you one more chance Patson, bring that button back!!!! If not, you just lost a dedicated player.
Dislike Dislike x 1 View List

vani56

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 02:33:34 pm »
I'm actually really pissed off the replace button in the airplane details page has been removed. As a matter of fact, I feel like pulling the plug on my airline right now. Push the "declare bankruptcy" button, logout and never login again.

I will give you one more chance Patson, bring that button back!!!! If not, you just lost a dedicated player.

Calm down... ::)

patson

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2019, 12:10:17 am »
I'm actually really pissed off the replace button in the airplane details page has been removed. As a matter of fact, I feel like pulling the plug on my airline right now. Push the "declare bankruptcy" button, logout and never login again.

I will give you one more chance Patson, bring that button back!!!! If not, you just lost a dedicated player.

There are changes that not everyone would like as much - that's the loophole I need to get rid of. I understand you are upset, but unless you can convince me how it was not a loophole otherwise I don't think I will revert the change.


neez

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: New Airplane changes
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 02:54:32 pm »
Personally I'm also not so happy about the removal of the replace button. I like to manage my fleet to the point that I have a continous flow of replacements and not like 20 planes at the same time. For that purpose manual replacement was useful. How about adding the replace button only to planes that you have owned for a certain time - for example for more than twice the delivery time?