Author Topic: Future Game reset - new ideas and game mechanics. Airline-club V2 woot woot  (Read 1312 times)

patson

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Hi Guys!

You probably have noticed I have slowed down on game development and getting on much less than before. I must admit that I lost interest in the game as my airline is quite fully developed.

I still log in once in a while thanks to the great game community but still that alone is not enough to keep players :)

Therefore, I am thinking to add various new game mechanics and overhaul. And there will be a world reset that comes with it, cause with all these new proposed changes (non confirm yet...just new ideas) some established airline is going to be badly hurt. Might as well start over and reset the game world :P

BUT! not all is lost! I am going to introduce some LEGACY bonus so more accomplished airline in this current game world will be rewarded in the new game world (but not too overpowered)


Below is a list of proposed change, take note that all of the below are up for discussion. Just want to brainstorm a little bit here and gather some inputs

Negotiation system
Yep....many of the things below will base on this new system. Getting slots, getting airplane order discount, establishing routes to foreign country, setting up base etc etc

Airlines accumulate negotiation points over time, the rate of accumulation probably has to do with an airline's size or something (to be determined)

Negotiation has certain cool-down period, perhaps one can only negotiate for the same thing every 3 months in-game time for example

Now I know some of you might hate it, but there will be randomness implemented into this (just like any negotiation!)

To initiate negotiation will need certain amount of points. For example:

To negotiate for slots from a scale 5 airport requires 50 negotiation point. And the outcome could be : Great success : 10 slots, Success : 5 slots, Minor Success : 2 slots.  Failed : 0 slots

Some of the harder thing might require several negotiation dialog to push through, for example establishing a foreign base

I know this might turn into a very lame system....but i do want to put it up for suggestions/comments/concerns. I think this system could be interesting if we do it right :)

Country relationship with Airlines
The current game as certain country relationship matrix, and an airline's relationship with a country is fixed by the airline's mother country. This is a good starting point but we can perhaps make this more interesting. I would think each airline should have unique relationship with each country. Certain things that can affect the relationship:
1. Establish flight routes from foreign country to this country with high volume
2. Presence of other foreign airlines in this country - especially airlines from same foreign country (need to fight it out, for example a country would only allow N routes flying to her from a foreign country X - I think this is pretty realistic)

Airport slots
Airport slots are now gained via negotiation. Of course many other factors still affect the outcome:
1. How crowded is the airport
2. How big is your airline
3. Country relationship
4. How many routes do you already have (easier for fresh airlines)

Increased difficulty of flying to already crowed country/airport
It's quite easy...almost too easy now. Any airline as far as having neutral relationship can fly to any other airports. I understand the old route restriction is not welcoming to many players, but I do think having some limit is good, as far we it's something players can work on and see progress (and protection for younger airlines too, it should be relatively easy for them on the first few routes)

If certain airport (size matters too) is already crowded with route flying from certain country X, then it will not easily allow new airline to do it. New airline probably need to opt for other alternative airport of that country or use "negotiation"

Increased difficulty of setting up hubs especially foreign ones
Currently as far as the airline grade is certain level and you have a route flying to certain foreign airport (and country relationship is > 0), then u can setup hub and start flying domestic. That seems a bit weird. I would assume in real world a country wouldn't just let a foreign airline flying domestic like that.

So im thinking that airline's country relationship should play major role here. Only after building up good relationship will the country give a foreign airline to "negotiate" for a hub. Once a hub is setup, it probably will have certain restrictions (for example only allow X number of domestic route and within Y km range etc). Those restrictions will be slowly relaxed as the airline further improve relationship with certain country

Fleet composition
Current game model is pretty flat - airplane model perform the same for all players - same maintenance cost - except that country relationship play certain role (ie Russian cannot buy American jets). We need a new model that is more interesting. That does not necessary mean more realistic but i do want to make the game more interesting. For example sticking with a single manufacturer would give discount and also maintenance bonus. Buying airplanes from certain country will affect airline's relationship with certain country etc etc.

Loyalty competition
Airports in the game world right now can sustain many airlines with high loyalty - as far as all of them provide high quality service and volume. I am thinking to change the game model such that loyalty is "relative" - the loyalty pool is a fixed number (say 100), and will be split to all airlines that flies to this airport - still computed by mostly volume and service level, with hometown airline having some extra bonus.

This should give hometown airline a bigger advantage against foreign airline. And also make it the game more competitive as airlines would have to fight for loyalty.

Loyalty will also play a more dominant factor when virtual pax makes their travel decisions



Probably many more...but i will stop for now...it's getting late :P






« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 12:31:06 pm by patson »

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Pan Am

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Dobrolet

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Why not make the game round based, for example the server lasts from 1990 to 2020 (and speed like one actual day is a months) and the winners and high finishers get medals. We could have a new server starting every months or so. Airplane models need fixing with correct data(they are not realistic right now)

You definitely need to monetise the game for a better server and ice-cream. As an example sell in game currency for 1usd = 1 million in game or something(so its not too overpowered and attractive to use), maybe some advert banners.

Morb

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As I said before I would really love the game to be in cycles of smth like 3 months, where each time you could try out different concepts. Mainly because I feel like at some point the "lategame" is nonexistant, the only thing left to do is micromanaging prices which is just tedious and no fun.

But overall a reset is totally necessary and should be enough for the moment. Including new features right now would probably only let the rich people benefit even more (or **** them ;D).

To your proposed changes.. I cant really imagine how the Negotiation system will work then, but if you think it will work go for it. Overall it sounds that the game will be more challenging which is good imo. My main motivation to play a game like this is to climb the ladder, so as long stuff is not to unbalanced I will try that again.

You definitely need to monetise the game for a better server and ice-cream. As an example sell in game currency for 1usd = 1 million in game or something(so its not too overpowered and attractive to use), maybe some advert banners.

As soon as one could buy advantages with real money I would never touch the game again.

Sadly I had to cut my Patreon support cause I didn't feel like there was any development worth supporting in the last months, but I will be glad to donate money again when there are some changes that make it worth playing again.

BUT! not all is lost! I am going to introduce some LEGACY bonus so more accomplished airline in this current game world will be rewarded in the new game world (but not too overpowered)

I hope that bonus will be LEGENDARY for me ;)


trans nations

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Another observation I have is the Alliance system.

In the current world, an alliance is somehow important for an airline to grow - points (most important), connections, etc.

It's a pain to see members' leave, and it will be difficult to switch alliance (as you've been adapting the alliance since day 1)

So I would suggest keeping the alliance system but make it more flexible and with less impact on the points.

Partner system would be good for players who don't want to join an alliance. A player can select other airlines (with a limit for sure)
as their partner.

Also, I would like to have an investment/stock system so you can spend (or gain) money from others.
Used to be a decent airlines

Rothlo

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there will be a world reset that comes with it, I am going to introduce some LEGACY bonus so more accomplished airline in this current game world will be rewarded in the new game world

I'm all for a world reset, especially with such game-play altering changes, because of this im actually against the idea of a legacy bonus. I'm not just saying that because I want an advantage. I'm ranked #39 in terms of PAX so I also have a lot to gain from a legacy bonus. I know you said it wouldn't be too overpowered, but if the game get's new mechanics, and they are harder and/or add some random elements it would give current players a headstart, it also wouldn't allow us to know what it's actually like operating as a new airline. These combined would mean airlines that do well simply for being big will benefit, it won't allow for airline with better skill/management to catch up.



Airlines accumulate negotiation points over time, the rate of accumulation probably has to do with an airline's size or something (to be determined)

Feel like it should be a combination of profit margins and reputation. If it was just size you get the issue where if I join the game later and am smaller doesn't matter how much better I'm operating, I will always lose out. By doing it on profit margins it will be based on the 'success' of operating at your current size. In real life some Airlines are in different markets, some do small regional routes, some do global routes. Although the global airline might make more the local airline might be operating better in its current market.

edit:
I typed that but re-reading I disagree with myself. Pax and reputation would be much better. PAX is a better indicator of potential money. Looking up the numbers Lufthansa earns way more than EasyJet but EasyJet carry way more pax. If it was an airport they would likely care about the airline which could bring them the most potential passengers. If you wanted cheaper planes I think the negotiating power should depend on how much profit you make and how many planes from the same company you operate, are you a loyal customer? If it's a foreign country they would most likely care about profits and reputation. I can't decide myself, would like to hear another viewpoint on this.



there will be randomness implemented into this (just like any negotiation!)

Big fan of this, just like real life, sometimes things go your way, other times not. Also makes the game for exciting.



Some of the harder thing might require several negotiation dialog to push through, for example establishing a foreign base

I like this idea, I don't think it should be that you have to do a set number of negotiations, perhaps just make the odds really slim, then players have to weigh up if it's worth it to keep trying or focus on a differant county. If you're lucky it could happen first time, it's rare, but could happen, or you have to waste so many of these 'points' trying to achieve something that it was ultimately a waste. Adds a fun sunk cost fallacy problem.



I know this might turn into a very lame system....but i do want to put it up for suggestions/comments/concerns. I think this system could be interesting if we do it right :)

Agreed, I really like this idea. I definitely think the game needs that extra kick to make it less spreadsheet managment and more strategy/chance based.



especially airlines from same foreign country (need to fight it out, for example a country would only allow N routes flying to her from a foreign country X

Again really like this idea. It creates a more narrow competition, also allows for greater domestic competition as currently the games pretty global and if you don't succeed in your country you just try somewhere else. It will make choosing a starting location much more important.



Airport slots are now gained via negotiation. Of course many other factors still affect the outcome:
1. How crowded is the airport
2. How big is your airline
3. Country relationship
4. How many routes do you already have (easier for fresh airlines)

I think when you become the major stake in an airport and are the number #1 airline (in terms of PAX) the airport should stop offering you new slots (or make it very expensive). A airport wouldn't want to be controlled by a single airlines market dominance. It would also create rivalry's between the first and second biggest airlines at an airport, making the fight to 'champion' an airport harder. It also allows for small airlines to grow with relative ease but force large airlines to expand to another airport. It would also mean large airlines that still want to grow at this airport would need to get bigger planes to fly more pax. This would make smaller regional routes with smaller planes less attractive, this makes it better for smaller airlines and stops large players from operating small profit losing routes to 'bully' out smaller players. Also prevents one airline just utterly taking control of a airport like Gatwick.



So im thinking that airline's country relationship should play major role here.

Like the idea of making it harder to operate abroad, adds more focus domestically, like I was saying I chose the UK to start in but at this point, MJN airline can operate anywhere pretty much without much thought, If the UK market tanked for me overnight I could just up sticks and move. Which isn't very realistic, an airline would almost certainly focus domestically first.



For example sticking with a single manufacturer would give discount and also maintenance bonus.

YES! Been wanting this for a long time. I feel being UK based and the fact the majority of my market is in Europe I should almost entirely be Airbus, but I'm not, in reality, I only choose the Airbus planes I do because they are the best. In real life, I would be incentivised to focus on Airbus and get benefits from the countries that contribute to it such as France, Spain, and Germany.




Overall really like these suggestions, personally a big fan. Keep up the great work. Love it. Also, these are just my initial thoughts, might read it later and realise a flaw in my thinking. Would love to know what others think.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 03:29:44 pm by Rothlo »

Trissi

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I think the ideas mentioned are good. How long of a time do you plan in for it patson?  :D ,  just curious on how long about maybe. xD

Edoebzd

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I think you should add the possibility to lease planes from other airlines or from the manufacturer. For expample you lease a plane for 5 years, during this period you will pay an amount of money at a monthly rate to the owner of the aircraft, but you can use it on your routes. At the end of the leasing contract (if the owner wants) you can buy the plane with a discount or lease it for another period at a reduced price.
If you lease a lot of aircraft from the same airline/manufactor you will get reduced fares and a higher probability to be able to buy the aircraft at the end of the contract (this doesn't apply if the owner is a human).

Another idea for V2 is to add the possibility to make itermediate stops during a flight (for expample you need to go from airport A to airport C, but by the way you stop also at airport B where you can load/unload passenger and fuel).

Another idea is to add (as an option) IFE on board (costs more but attracts more passenger expecially on long routes)  and/or snacks/meals/gadgets/wifi/... more things you add more passenger you will attract, but costs will rise.

neez

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Well... to be honest, I'm not as enthusiastic as others here. I started roughly two months ago and I'm now finally in a position where I think I have a decently sized, well running airline. So the prospect to fall back to C421s doesn't seem so tempting right now... I would, I love the game, but personally a reset now is a bit frustrating to me.



I think you should add the possibility to lease planes from other airlines or from the manufacturer. For expample you lease a plane for 5 years, during this period you will pay an amount of money at a monthly rate to the owner of the aircraft, but you can use it on your routes. At the end of the leasing contract (if the owner wants) you can buy the plane with a discount or lease it for another period at a reduced price.
If you lease a lot of aircraft from the same airline/manufactor you will get reduced fares and a higher probability to be able to buy the aircraft at the end of the contract (this doesn't apply if the owner is a human).
How is this different than taking out a loan and buy the aircraft?

bluesky

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Hmm, nice.
About the airplane model remake, new buildings, advertisement, airport expansion and other stuff you mentioned?
Will that happen before V2, so you can test how it goes, or at the same time? (or not at all?)
Do you have an ETA (days, weeks, months?)?
I'm waiting for a world reset to start playing again, but I'm not really motivated if the new stuff are just minor things you could add/modify in the current world.

Also, about monetizing the game. You should do that by increasing the amount of people playing, not by selling ingame buffs, even more so if it's a competitive MP game like this.
IMO, if you want to make more money out of this, you'll need a clear roadmap with clearly defined goals and deadlines. (Morb said earlier he's not donating anymore because something like this).
You'll need to make people donate because they believe that, even if they don't think the game is good enough atm, you will keep adding stuff that interest them.
Basically, you'll have to take the game seriously, not as a hobby (and I know that if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't).

Obviously, I'm not donating anything so you could just tell me to **** off.

bluesky

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How is this different than taking out a loan and buy the aircraft?

It's basically the difference between borrowing the aircraft or borrowing the money.
IRL (in my country at least), leasing has lower taxes because it isn't classified as a financial operation (no banks involved) and offers lower risks to both parties.
IDK how you would simulate this ingame tho.

Morb

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A word to monetization again.. I would totally be ready to donate like 10$/month if the game makes me want to play. But I think the latest real update to the game was end of november, which was only a change to the pax model and some other minor stuff, so no real features gameplaywise. Since then there were some anouncements for airport expansion and things that never happened so I didnt felt like my patreon support was justified anymore.


california

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I've got mixed feelings on this reset. Though I understand the grounds and the logic makes sense, I believe that market forces (or disinterest) drives airlines out of competition/into oblivion. At the same time, a lot of airlines are inactive but still haunting the game world. Then again, there are also so many bugs/glitches that a hard reset would probably fix.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 03:45:17 pm by california »

patson

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Started some coding on V2 already :)

Yes...one of the fixes is to make it easier to fight inactive airlines
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alex

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I don't know if providing legacy airlines a bonus is a good idea. I think the right model is something like a bankruptcy bonus: that is, if you get really big, and then voluntarily hit the bankruptcy button, you lose everything but now get some kind of bonus (that is otherwise impossible to get) as you rebuild from scratch. This could even be cumulative through multiple resets. As such you would get constant churn out of the top airlines.